Monday, March 27, 2006

Border controling human rights issues

I found this article to be very interesting, because I think that this is a really difficult issue to piece apart. I think it's a bit tragic that granting rights to immigrants tends to be labeled as the view of the Democratic party. Seeing as this is the land of the free and the home of the brave, shouldn't EVERYONE be free to the same extent? I think that it's a bit hypocritical not to offer immigrants any sort of status after these immigrants have been granted the right to legally work in the United States. After all, these people contribute to the workforce and the economy by working here, so why shouldn't they be given legal status here?

18 comments:

RockStar said...

I think illegal immigrants should be treated like the criminals they are and not be given any special privileges simply because they are willing to do shit work that citizens or legal nationals are not willing to do. The fact is they take much more than they EVER give back. Their children fill our school systems and take away what should be a better education from the children of legal parents. They fill our jails and have accidents with their shitty uninsured cars. They turn our housing into slop holes and then move to another. Let me tell you about my own experience with these people of fake forged federal documents.

I had to help repair a home that some illegal immigrants were living in. The toilet had clogged, but the kept using it until it was overflowing, then they started shiting in the corner of the bathroom until it was about 3 feet high. They built a fire in the kitchen to cook on because the power had been shut off due to no payments. The areas with carpet had been smeared with grime and dog hair. IT was just disgusting. The owner had to foot the cost of the bill because they had bailed. THIS IS NOT AN ISOLATED OCCURANCE! If given the opportunity they will shit the corner of your bathroom too! Illegal immigrants are just that ILLEGAL and should be deported!!!!

Dr. D said...

Rockstar:
it seems that you are a bit out of your element here -- maybe you should stick to your slights about fat people -- although there seems to be common denominator in your caustic comments: feces.
Do you have a fetish with feces?
Anyway, you need to get your facts straight -- just because you might have had an unfortunate experience with illegal aliens, doesn't mean that all of them are bad -- or for that matter -- that all will leave a trail of feces 3 feet high..
I think there is actually a lesson to learn in your story: maybe the landlord should have fixed the toilet? But that's part of the problem, isn't it? Who would the illegal aliens go to to get their problems fixed -- they are at the mercy of bad landlords, bad employers etc., They don't have any rights. You can say that's fine, because they are not American citizens or legal permanent residents -- but shouldn't these people have the same opportunity to make a life in America as the Irish or Italian or Polish etc., etc., immigrants did in the early 1900s?

Belma said...

Rockstar:
I cannot believe how disgusting your post was, and how bigoted and xenophobic you actually are. What kind of a person stereotypes an entire group of people based on a bad experience that he had with a few people who are members of this group? I know PLENTY of immigrants who have made a life for themselves in this country (and in other countries as well), and it is people like you who make me happy and proud of these immigrants. It is people like you who have made their lives difficult, and they have accomplished so much in their lives DESPITE ignorance created by people like yourself. Oh and by the way, let's not forget that this entire country is made up of immigrants, and believe it or not, your own ancestors were at some point immigrants, so you yourself are a descendant of an immigrant.

RockStar said...

Illegal aliens take more from the system than they put in" do you not understand? What part of billions of dollars year is too difficult to comprehend.

That's why I give a (sorry Dr. D) shit.

They cost the state of California 8 billion a year. That's allot more than they contribute. Not to mention the overcrowding of public inner city schools at the expense of the legal kids. They're draining the healthcare system in California.

Also, don't forget that when these people come hear, they are not inspected for diseases nor given shots. Is it any wonder that many diseases that were once eradicated in the US are making a comeback? TB for one.

Anonymous said...

Why Illegal Immigrants Suck – Reason # 1


In May of 2001, Linda Carty, an illegal from St. Christopher, British Virgin Islands, and three of her friends broke into a home and beat four occupants. They then kidnapped and duct taped one of the occupants, a 25-year-old woman. A bag was placed over the woman's head and she was thrown into the trunk of a car. She suffocated.

Ms. Carty is now sitting on Texas' Death Row. So not only is she a murdering scumbag illegal, she's costing us money every single day of her life.

stacy h said...

I do understand why people might dislike illegal immigrants because they entered the U.S. illegally, but they are human beings just like the rest of us. They have committed a wrong by entering the country in an unlawful manner, but it doesn't mean they are trouble makers or make life worse off for the average American. As many have noted, they have added support to our economy. Yes, it would be nice to put Americans in jobs that are taken by illegal immigrants, but illegal immigrants take the jobs that most Americans refuse to take. When dealing with keeping people out of a country, there is no way to avoid controversy. Immigration is such a hot issue and dealing with those who are illegal is all the more heated.

Anonymous said...

I happened on this blog site while surfing the net for information about illegal immigrants. You see I was a victim of a violent crime committed by an illegal and unfortunately I was not his first victim. This was a person who should have never been in this country in the first place but because of a lack of communication between government agencies he was able to continue to weave his web of violence. I now feel that it is my obligation to inform the misguided who feel that people enter this country illegally simply to avoid persecution or to earn a good living. THIS IS NOT THE CASE.
Some are very bad people. The process to enter this country legally is necessary and should remain in place.

Why illegal immigrants suck – Reason # 2

• David Nadel was a familiar community activist in Berkeley, California, and owned the popular Ashkenaz dance club that featured eclectic music, such as zydeco, cajun, klezmer and the blues. In 1996, he was murdered in the club by an apparent Mexican illegal alien, Juan Rivera Perez, whom Nadel had earlier ejected for harassing other patrons. Perez was in Ashkenaz as part of an English as a Second Language program graduation party. Police believe Perez escaped to Mexico, which is famously unhelpful in extraditing violent criminals. Despite the outcry from law enforcement, victims and the press, our government does not insist on normal compliance in law enforcement from Mexican authorities.

Anonymous said...

Why illegal immigrants suck. Reason #3.

The lives of many law enforcement officers have been lost at the criminal hands of violent illegal aliens. One such was David March, a Los Angeles County Sheriff who was killed when he pulled over a car for a routine traffic stop. The driver was a dangerous Mexican drug dealer, Armando Garcia, who had been deported twice and has a long history of violent crime. After shooting Sheriff March twice in the head, Garcia was able to escape and is believed to be in Mexico, where officials refuse to send him back for trial. Garcia is also wanted for two attempted murders. At least one member of Congress, Adam Schiff, has called for President Bush to insist that Mexico extradite violent felons. Furthermore, the Attorneys General for all 50 states wrote to Ashcroft and Secretary of State Colin Powell to demand action on the extradition issue.

Danielle Strauch said...

Ok, I understand that there are good people and bad people in this world, but there are plenty of Americans who kill and commit crimes everyday as well. Whatever the motive is for an illegal alien to enter America we cannot simply generalize and stereotype large categories of people by the actions of certain individuals. It is the stereotyping and lack of tolerance that makes hatred thrive around the world and as a result instead of spreading "freedom and liberty for all" some individuals actually fuel prejudice and persecution of people and cultures they cannot even begin to comprehend or understand.

don said...

I may be out of my element here but I'll try. While I may not agree with the language used by Rockstar to present his views, I try to keep in mind the principle behind it.

For one, Rockstar is absolutely correct in stating the fact that illegal immigrants are indeed illegal. There are good and bad immigrants who are admitted legally and there are good and bad immigrants who are able to enter the U.S. illegal. Regardless, the point here is that there illegal immigrants. Whether or not they have done good or bad, they have done wrong...they have broken the law. I find that deporting immediately without some chance at success is unfair. At the same time, I find that coddling lawbreakers and saying essentially, "it's okay" is also not right. How to reconcile? I don't know.

Getting back on track, the core of Rockstar's argument is sound. To put it metaphorically, an unwanted stranger enters your house and while they are not belligerent, they eat your food (which you worked hard for), sleep in your bed (which is your own personal sanctuary), and poop in your toilet (which you yourself have to scrub). Do you welcome them with open arms or do you say please leave...your're unwanted in my house? Or do you do something else in between? For most people, the thinking is to ask someone to leave. For the extremely generous and rare, to welcome the stranger and let them do whatever.

In addressing the other points, I do believe that everyone should be given the opportunity to succeed in life. At the same time, however, what if your success is blocked by another person's success? To put this in context:

The U.S. government and various states do spend a significant amount of money on both legal and illegal immigrants (i.e. from providing housing to those recently admitted to deportation and jailing costs), money that, in a perfect world, could be used more effectively like education, as Rockstar alludes to.

Suppose that the governments at the state and federal level somehow come up with a financial figure and realize that it costs $YYY dollars to take care of illegal immigrant costs. They say to themselves, "Well, if that's the case, then we should lower the number of refugees and legal immigrants we let in in order to make sure the government doesn't go bankrupt." (Whether the government does or does not is not the point). That there is a cost-benefit ratio that has to be figured. That if it costs X much to take care of illegals, then this will cut into the benefit of admitting Z number of immigrants.

The point is, that for a desperate family of immigrants who have proper paper work, is it okay...is it fair...is it just...that they have to wait longer and longer, days upon weeks and weeks upon months and months upon years to wait because illegal immigrants are costing the immigration department so much money that they can't afford admitting legal immigrants?

Essentially, that when illegal immigrants line hop, they are "reaping the reward" (i.e. being in the U.S) while those who waited paitiently and legally in line are still waiting? Is that fair? Is that just?

MadMax said...

Recently, 500,000 people marched in Los Angeles demonstrating against what could be sweeping reform regarding illegal immigration. Congress wants to make being an illegal immigrant a felony, and to allocate funds to construct better border walls between Mexico and the United States. It was said that this was the largest demonstration in recent American history for any cause.

Can you imagine if that many people came out to demonstrate against the war in Iraq? But this was a demonstration against our government for wanting to better protect our borders. My question is: When should illegals have rights here in the United States, let alone to be able to drive on our roads?
By definition they are here illegally, and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. If you're here illegally, you ought to be sent back to your country of origin. I'm not against immigration per se, but please do come legally like everyone else does. We should not have a list of separate rights for illegal immigrants. They should not be permitted to drive, buy real estate, or any of the other rights the rest of us possess.
We also need a new Ellis Island system that would check each newcomer to our country for job prospects, residence, health records, etc. We can't afford to hand out benefits for new arrivals, when our system can't adequately help those already here, and our native-born Americans. If you don’t have a job in 90 days you go back, even if you are a political refugee. Government benefits belong to those who have been here legally and have worked for a certain period of time. These checks are also for retirees, and those who qualify due to disabilities. They should not be doled out to those just arriving on our soil.
To the half-million people who protested my government's attempt to protect our borders, we have an old expression: America, love it or leave it. Every civil society needs laws and rules. Without them, we'd have anarchy.

Anonymous said...

• Why illegal immigrants suck. Reason #4


On the day after New Years 2003, six-year-old Jose Soto was riding his bike around the parking lot near his parents' apartment house when he was struck and severely injured by a man backing out in a red truck. Witnesses were shocked when the man stopped and pulled the child from under the truck and roughly threw him aside before speeding off. The chid later died as a result of the injuries he sustained. The perpetrator, Jose Ines Morales, is believed to be in Mexico. As noted above, once a criminal reaches Mexico, he has effectively eluded the law permanently, since America's southern neighbor refuses to extradite, as a matter of policy, criminals who may be punished according to the severity of their crimes.

RockStar said...

Danielle you should consider this.........If W gets his proposed guest worker program, and if the current trends continue caucasions will be a minority in this country. Also, you need to think about the impact this will have on our welfare program.

My neighboor works for the welfare department and she shared with me the facts about illegals and welfare. When determining eligibilities, they must input the citizenship status of the person applying for benefits.

They must code illegals as just that, illegals. This information could be easily gathered by Immigration and Naturalization from our system, but apparently it is not.

The children of illegals born in this country are entitled to TANF (Cash Assistance), Food Stamps and Mediciad benefits, regardless of the citizenship status of their parents.

Most Middle Class Americans can't get Medicaid benefits for their own children - yet illegals can! Here's another thing. The US Government limits Cash Assistance benefits to 60 months, or five years. However, illegals (who are not case members since they are illegal) can get cash benefits indefinitely! What is wrong with this picture?

George Bush's guest worker program is a big sham. Doesn't he realize how many babies these "guest workers" can produce in six years? And their parents will be the first in line for government food stamps, cash assistance and Medicaid benefits. You, the American Middle Class will end up paying out of your pocket to support the children of these "guest workers." In essence our great nation will likely turn into a third world country!

The Middle Class needs to rise up and say, "we've had enough, and we aren't going to take it anymore." Contact your congress person and tell them to stop Free Federal Welfare programs for "Illegals"

Danielle Strauch said...

Dear Rockstar,

First of all I'm not here to talk about what economic class I consider myself to be in. I understand that we should not totally disregard the consequences of what will happen if we allow illegal aliens to continue to utilize our economic resources, but it is still not correct to stereotype a large group of people based on actions of some. I just do not think it is fair to say all illegals are criminals...

Also, did you ever think of this situation- imagine you lived in a run-in shed in Africa and wanted to better your position in life economically for your family. How can you do that when you are backed against a wall and given no rights in your home country? You have to travel elsewhere. I'm not by any reason saying it is okay to come to the U.S., but if you hear that the U.S. has economic opportunities moreso than other countries wouldn't you try to come here? Illegal aliens are taking jobs that aren't even offered to most Americans because we would want higher wages. I know that this explanation is not right, but what would you do to better your life? I'm sure that you would have a drive to better your situation and maybe if international law allowed people to travel and have a set code of laws follow them from state to state we wouldn't run into this problem of backing people into desperation and illegal actions (including crossing borders illegally).

Anonymous said...

I bet that most of you blogers live in reeeeal nice neighborhoods perhaps gated ones. There are no chickens clucking next door to YOU. YOU don’t have to listen to Mariachi music blasting until 2:00 a.m. If you have kids, they probably go to private school. You probably have good health insurance too. No, YOU won’t be the one waiting for hours in an emergency room crowded with illegals. YOUR child will never come home from school saying, “Mommy, I didn’t learn anything today because the teacher put all us English speaking kids in the corner to read quietly while she worked with the Spanish language kids all day.” Neither will your child come home crying because some illegal classmate told him or her to “go back to Africa” or “go back to Europe”……right before beating the leaving daylights out of him or her. I’ve never said anything this harsh to anyone before but SCREW illegal immigrants and SCREW all the rest of you bleeding heart liberals who support them staying in our country. I think that INS should run their brown asses back over the border, put up a wall and shoot them if they try to slither back over.

Dr. D said...

Anonymous:
Not sure where you live, but you have some real problems.
I think Mariachi music is quite entertaining, actually.
Very live and upbeat. Maybe the problem is with you -- and your idea that as a white (I'm presuming) American you are entitled to more human rights than any other human being -- legal or illegal. Why should that be the case -- just because your white ass was born on this side of the border or wall? Why is it so bad that people want to have a better life? Can't you even put yourself into their position? Can't you see that these people also contribute to our society -- not all are ignorant as you suggest, or brown as you suggest also.
Get a life!
BTW, it's not INS anymore, it's the DHS.

RockStar said...

Danielle you just might be right this is not the fault of the illegal immigrants.
Illegal immigrants are not breaking our immigration laws. OUR government is. Illegal immigrants would not be able to accomplish a single outrage if it were not for our government. Illegal immigrants are not our real enemy, they are the result of our government's corruption of immigration law. It is our government who is our enemy.

Our government is virtually importing poverty from third world countries at taxpayers' expense. Illegal immigrants are not doing this! Our government is! Illegal immigrants are not forcing foreign languages on Americans. Our government is.

It is time to direct our anger at the true culprits of the corruption of immigration law. Most illegal immigrants take what our government says they are entitled to. Why not? Our government wants them to.

Our government is responsible for the rise in crime, high taxes, inferior education, low wage and work standards, unemployment, inner city decay and urban expansion, health care crisis, housing crisis, crowded cities -- resulting from record breaking illegal immigration.

In general, illegal immigrants benefit only a small segment of special interest groups made up of employers and contractors who use illegals to cheat on their taxes for profit. These groups claim that Americans won't do the work that illegals do. The truth is that Americans will do the work if they are not exploited and receive fair pay. Employers who hire illegals even make the claim that illegals are better off than in their home country,

Having said the above, clearly, the vast majority of illegal immigrants are good decent hard working people searching for a better life and many eventually become proud American citizens (as did my wife). But not all illegal immigrants can be characterized in this way as is made clear by the bulging illegal alien inmate population at the Los Angeles County jail, making up 23%, or 38,748 inmates -- mostly from Mexico.

Danielle Strauch said...

Government corruption exists worldwide. Each illegal immigrant that is incarcerated in our jails is funded by American tax payers. This is not something I am in support of, but I am in support of getting anyone who is a threat to our safety off the streets. I think that more programs should form where immigration processes and hearings take place while illegal aliens are incarcerated. Our class deals with a such a program.

Just as a note, I do not know what the answer is to governmental policies dealing with immigration. I do not know whether a world with no borders could ever be considered an ideal by all, or whether illegal aliens should be charged with a felony would please everyone either. Some type of middle ground solution is needed, but I cannot develop a single policy to fix this dilemma. Illegal aliens clearly are fleeing from some type of difficult life, whether it be persecution or just hard times, and need some place to go...and we cannot drop them off on an island somewhere...should we condemn unfortunate people to a far from humane way of life in some cases or is it okay to just brush them off and say oh well they were born in a certain country and they should stay there?